• From: Florida
  • Registered: 2009-03-27
  • Posts: 20

Topic: STATLER: Very good decision !!

For using Debian Squeeze, and not Ubuntu....Awesome !!  big_smile

Cheers, Big Ears!

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  • From: Lincoln, UK
  • Registered: 2008-11-20
  • Posts: 4,246

Re: STATLER: Very good decision !!

smile

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  • From: Algarve, Portugal
  • Registered: 2009-02-07
  • Posts: 196

Re: STATLER: Very good decision !!

I also agree! smile

Cumprimentos. Regards.
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  • fox
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  • From: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
  • Registered: 2009-05-10
  • Posts: 361

Re: STATLER: Very good decision !!

I don't understand why so many people on this forum seem to be against Ubuntu as a base.  CrunchBang 9.04 used Ubuntu as a base and is a very stable, very fast and lean distro.  I don't think it brought in a whole lot of extra dependencies because it worked from a base install of Ubuntu.  Don't get me wrong, I like Debian as well, but I think Ubuntu is trying to be more innovative with things like fast start (and netbook remixes, although they aren't relevant here).  I hope some of that innovation (especially fast start) will find its way into the new Debian-based CrunchBang.

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#!CrunchBang Statler & UNE 10.10 on Acer 1810TZ (OCZ Vertex 60gb SSD)
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  • From: California, USA
  • Registered: 2008-11-29
  • Posts: 8,647

Re: STATLER: Very good decision !!

I think some people don't like Ubuntu's repos for including beta software (both literal and figurative) sometimes. Also some people may find Debian to be more stable than Ubuntu.

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  • Registered: 2008-11-24
  • Posts: 1,858

Re: STATLER: Very good decision !!

fox wrote:

I don't understand why so many people on this forum seem to be against Ubuntu as a base.  CrunchBang 9.04 used Ubuntu as a base and is a very stable, very fast and lean distro.  I don't think it brought in a whole lot of extra dependencies because it worked from a base install of Ubuntu.  Don't get me wrong, I like Debian as well, but I think Ubuntu is trying to be more innovative with things like fast start (and netbook remixes, although they aren't relevant here).  I hope some of that innovation (especially fast start) will find its way into the new Debian-based CrunchBang.

The reason I gave up on Ubuntu last year is that it's too much of a "compromise" distro. I understand this is a big part of Ubuntu's success, but it just doesn't work for me. Basically, their 6-month cycle is a compromise between stability and freshness. Personally, I would rather use a distro that is either incredibly stable or incredibly fresh. Ubuntu always seems to get really "stale" a few months into its release, but without the benefits of a distro with bug-free reliability as its goal. Plus I have real problems with their "release every 6 months, even if it's broken, and by the way, a fresh install is better than an upgrade" philosophy.

On my work computers, I use CentOS and Debian Stable, with a dual boot into Arch for the rare occasions I need the latest version of OpenOffice or whatever. If you've only ever used Ubuntu, a truly polished and stable distro with many years of support can be a real revelation.

On my home computer, I'm still using #! 9.04, because I just love it so much. smile But I am looking forward to replacing it with Statler when the time comes.

  • pvsage
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  • From: Section Six
  • Registered: 2009-10-18
  • Posts: 4,911

Re: STATLER: Very good decision !!

Another reason to move away from Ubuntu is its metapackages are getting loaded with things that a lot of don't want in a lightweight OS, like Gnome dependencies, PulseAudio, etc, yada and so forth, even if the dependencies aren't required for the package's core applications to run properly.  The openoffice metapackage starting with Jaunty is a great example, as it pulls in the entire PulseAudio package.

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  • fox
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  • From: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
  • Registered: 2009-05-10
  • Posts: 361

Re: STATLER: Very good decision !!

Do you get this extra "dependency baggage" with the Ubuntu base install?  I had assumed this stuff was not in there, and that's why I didn't pull so much stuff in when I added openOffice to CrunchBang.

Mac user with Linux tendencies
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  • From: California, USA
  • Registered: 2008-11-29
  • Posts: 8,647

Re: STATLER: Very good decision !!

Dependencies are pulled in when you install a package needing them. It won't make a difference if you have a full Ubuntu or minimal install.

BTW pvsage are you sure OpenOffice pulls in Pulse? I never had that problem on Ubuntu.

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  • pvsage
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  • Registered: 2009-10-18
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Re: STATLER: Very good decision !!

^ I installed #! using the Live CD rather than the minimal install + #! script, so I couldn't tell ya.  I *can* tell you that installing OO.o on a #! 9.04 installed from the Live CD pulls in PA, which results in nonfluenced audio playback on my netbook.  This isn't such a problem in Jaunty since PA can be safely purged, but it takes a lot more work in Karmic.

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  • From: Algarve, Portugal
  • Registered: 2009-02-07
  • Posts: 196

Re: STATLER: Very good decision !!

Personnaly I've come to dislike some of the ways ubuntu is heading... like pulseaudio, mono stuff, 6 months release cycle and so on. As a base for a slim and clean system, Debian apears to me as a better (simpler, cleaner, friendlier) base and the rolling release option (testing or unstable) is very interesting. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles that ubuntu has, but it's simpler, easier and cleaner.

Cumprimentos. Regards.
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  • Registered: 2008-11-25
  • Posts: 4,363

Re: STATLER: Very good decision !!

pvsage wrote:

but it takes a lot more work in Karmic.

There in lies the key. It's not that the dependency issue can't be worked around but having to constantly install packages with --no-install-recommends isn't really good enough. The default behaviour of Ubuntu that forces their package base upon you, frustrated me in Jaunty and completely lost me in karmic.

It wasn't long after 9.04.01 that I personally began looking for alternatives. First with distros like Zenwalk and Arch then finally Debian. Debian was like a breath of fresh air and gave me the rolling release I preferred with stability,  an acceptably up to date package base in Squeeze and more control over my system. I still have a soft spot for distros like Zenwalk but for ease of use and vast package base, Debian wins hands down.

I've had some success in quickly setting up my own Debian systems with my install scripts but using one of corenominal's early test builds for the last week or so has reminded me how nice his final polish and tweaking is. We have much to be excited about in the coming weeks big_smile

  • From: California, USA
  • Registered: 2008-11-29
  • Posts: 8,647

Re: STATLER: Very good decision !!

pvsage wrote:

^ I installed #! using the Live CD rather than the minimal install + #! script, so I couldn't tell ya.  I *can* tell you that installing OO.o on a #! 9.04 installed from the Live CD pulls in PA, which results in nonfluenced audio playback on my netbook.  This isn't such a problem in Jaunty since PA can be safely purged, but it takes a lot more work in Karmic.

I just did a minimal Karmic installation with OpenOffice.org and theres only one pulse package installed: libpulse0

From your posts, I was expecting it to be far worse.

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  • pvsage
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  • From: Section Six
  • Registered: 2009-10-18
  • Posts: 4,911

Re: STATLER: Very good decision !!

Maybe Canonical has been reading the PA backlash in the Ubuntu forums?  Removing PA in Karmic was a bit of a hit-or-miss proposition.

Frankly I blame Canonical for giving PA a bad rap.  Apparently it's very reliable if it's properly set up, and Canonical hadn't done the research.  I can understand how something like PA or JACK would be useful for certain targeted distros.

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  • From: Strasbourg, France
  • Registered: 2009-09-22
  • Posts: 73

Re: STATLER: Very good decision !!

I was planning on doing a Lucid minimal install and getting it «Crunchbanged», looks like I'll finally have a good reason to switch to Debian ^^
Thx everyone in this community, I learned a lot from you all! smile

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  • Registered: 2009-01-30
  • Posts: 2

Re: STATLER: Very good decision !!

omns wrote:

There in lies the key. It's not that the dependency issue can't be worked around but having to constantly install packages with --no-install-recommends

Or simply add 

APT::Install-Recommends "0";

to /etc/apt/apt.conf
I use it on all debian based distributions (including debian itself) ever since apt-get switched to installing all recommends by default some time last year.

  • From: Nijmegen, Holland
  • Registered: 2009-12-11
  • Posts: 230

Re: STATLER: Very good decision !!

but it's simpler, easier and cleaner.

For me it also is a bummer how everybody gets excited about the next release and that each 6 months.

The Statler excitement on this forum is also too much for me, btw..

I stayed with Hardy a long time, stll use it from time to time and did not  regret it all seeing all the problems in the newer releases.
Openbox revelation came to me first trying on a Hardy base and then it began to become clear that I ' m not one of the desktop-bling boys.
Trying debian live cd's and installations I couldn 't help noticing  a fantastic rock solidness very dull and comfortable.
Of course you will want a fast startup and excellent hardware recognition.
For me the new Statler will be the alternative to Arch I guess.
What I have seen of Lynx doesn' t fill me with much excitement. The Mono discussion and Canonicals cooperation with Google on Google Os that I see as very detrimental for software freedom doesn' t make me happy either.

GNu/Linux: Nu nog schoner: http://linuxnogschoner.blogspot.com/  Dutch

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