• Registered: 2010-03-06
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Re: Planned changes?

Suggestions for the new Crunchbang / Squeezebang: (I think I like the sound of Crunchbang better).

I prefer pcmanfm to rox or thunar.  It performs the way a single click file manager should.  It's not perfect, but the best lightweight file manager IMO. 
     I recently tried sidux and fundamentally it wasn't much different than ubuntu, but (and I don't know if this is the case with all debian releases), I couldn't access my ntfs partitions.  That's important to me and I think that should be built in.
     I definitely like openbox more than xfce.  Openbox is so light and easy to configure.  It's the top reason I started using Crunchbang.
     I think the panel should change from tint2 to the Crunchbang Panel (http://crunchbanglinux.org/forums/topic … ang-panel/)  That thing is nice and customizable with a program launcher, calender, clock, tray, and can access the openbox menu (if xdotool is installed).  It's got the ease of customizing that gnome-panel has, with the speed of other lightweight panels.
     I find XFburn to be a program I use a lot, so I'd like to see that in the new version.  I would like to see the new 3.6 version of firefox included as well (if the new Crunchbang comes out before firefox is upgraded again.)  I like VLC, but it doesn't have an attached playlist, so I use Alsaplayer for music and VLC for video.  But, I don't mind adding that on my own.
     Really, the only stuff that should be included by default is ntfs support, more support for newer hardware (which if it's built on a new debian release shouldn't be a problem), pcmanfm, openbox (and the menu shortcuts to the configuration files) and the Crunchbang Panel (at least preinstalled and available as an option in the autostart.sh file with tint2.  Of course, a package manager should be a given as well. 
     Other programs are debatable and interchangeable.  If I want a different text editor or command prompt, I can easily get that.  Just as long as there are defaults that let me do what I need to do configure everything the way I want.
     I know it can't be easy putting together an operating system (I'm not up to the task of installing openbox on Ubuntu), so I thank you for your work.  I would just like to know what kind of time frame we're looking at before the new Crunchbang comes out.  Are we talking a couple weeks (in which case I'll hold off installing Ubuntu on my new computer that crunchbang won't currently work on), a couple months, or more like near 2011?

  • holt
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Re: Planned changes?

omns wrote:

An xfce session is there at the moment but an openbox session is also in in the pipeline smile

Awesome idea!
I bet the package selection and default setup will be also great. If you can keep it stable this realese will gather lots of new users. cool

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  • gareim
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  • Registered: 2009-11-11
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Re: Planned changes?

ledomira wrote:

Suggestions for the new Crunchbang / Squeezebang: (I think I like the sound of Crunchbang better).

I prefer pcmanfm to rox or thunar.  It performs the way a single click file manager should.  It's not perfect, but the best lightweight file manager IMO. 
     I recently tried sidux and fundamentally it wasn't much different than ubuntu, but (and I don't know if this is the case with all debian releases), I couldn't access my ntfs partitions.  That's important to me and I think that should be built in.

Really? I'm on sidux right now and I can access ntfs partitions fine... I didn't even have to manually install the ntfs-3g driver (if I remember right). And I can't think of any distros where I had any problems with ntfs out of the box.

  • pvsage
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Re: Planned changes?

@gareim & ledomira - Internal NTFS partitions or USB drives?  I've had no trouble with the latter in any *buntu 8.10 or later, but I understand that fstab edits are usually required for the former.

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  • From: California, USA
  • Registered: 2008-11-29
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Re: Planned changes?

Just use pysdm to add your drives to fstab.

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  • From: Santa Fe, NM, USA
  • Registered: 2009-09-14
  • Posts: 1,349

Re: Planned changes?

Another thing ... NOT to change would be, Network-Manager

As Wicd doesn't yet support most Wireless USB Modems, and Network-Manager does.

Why change a good thing? If it's not broken don't fix it.  tongue

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  • From: California, USA
  • Registered: 2008-11-29
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Re: Planned changes?

vrkalak wrote:

If it's not broken don't fix it.  tongue

What about for the people where network-manager is broken? tongue

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  • From: Ontario, Canada
  • Registered: 2009-06-29
  • Posts: 1,409

Re: Planned changes?

anonymous wrote:
vrkalak wrote:

If it's not broken don't fix it.  tongue

What about for the people where network-manager is broken? tongue

This is actually quite a notable problem. From my experience, people either have success with wicd or with network-manager, not both. So either way someone will have trouble with their internet at first.

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  • Registered: 2008-11-24
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Re: Planned changes?

I would nominate ceni rather than wicd or nm. For those not familiar with it, ceni is a CLI network manager that is the default for sidux. Very cool and geeky. smile

  • pvsage
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Re: Planned changes?

^ You do realize that "very cool and geeky" is self-contradictory, right? hmm

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  • Registered: 2008-11-25
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Re: Planned changes?

^ it depends on your perspective smile

  • From: Ontario, Canada
  • Registered: 2009-06-29
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Re: Planned changes?

omns wrote:

^ it depends on your perspective smile

+1 for sure!

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  • Sunai
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Re: Planned changes?

snowpine wrote:

....ceni is a CLI network manager that is the default for sidux. Very cool and geeky. smile

So is wicd - try wicd-curses in a terminal wink

  • gareim
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Re: Planned changes?

pvsage wrote:

@gareim & ledomira - Internal NTFS partitions or USB drives?  I've had no trouble with the latter in any *buntu 8.10 or later, but I understand that fstab edits are usually required for the former.

Hmm, it's always been USB for me. So if it's internal and not USB, it won't work without some tinkering?

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Re: Planned changes?

That's what I hear.

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  • From: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Planned changes?

gareim wrote:
pvsage wrote:

@gareim & ledomira - Internal NTFS partitions or USB drives?  I've had no trouble with the latter in any *buntu 8.10 or later, but I understand that fstab edits are usually required for the former.

Hmm, it's always been USB for me. So if it's internal and not USB, it won't work without some tinkering?

eSATA is pretty good. It was a bit flaky when it first came out, but seems to be reliable now. Can't say anything for firewire, or any other way (NAS?)

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  • gruen
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  • Registered: 2008-12-03
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Re: Planned changes?

Will there be a "real" root account in Statler? I was using Debian (stable and testing) for a few years before I switched to #!. And I like the Debian way much better than the ubuntu-like sudo.

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  • From: Nagoya, Japan
  • Registered: 2009-01-07
  • Posts: 1,724

Re: Planned changes?

alon_h wrote:

A system based on testing will, IMHO, become diverged from release to releas, as it's not ment to be followed as a 'rolling release', especially not soon after a release. It will work, perhaps even well, but will need constant maintenance... Just like Ubuntu, a clear upgrade path is only planned and implemented when a release is due and the developers know what they're upgrading from/to.

That's kind-of what I was worrying about - how the "quantum jumps" would be handled: for example, the startup files changed from Jaunty to Karmic (or any other of the changes on that page, for that matter). That kind of stuff can't be done just by updating a package to a new version. Would Crunchbang Central have to handle it?

slipshot wrote:

The main thing i would like to see is pcmanfm replaced with thunar but other than that i think Crunchbang is perfect.

Me too, though a lot of people seem to like pcmanfm.

slipshot wrote:

The things i have the most interest in however is thew installer and apps like jockey-gtk.  ...  And i know jockey-gtk requires a package called linux-restricted-modules in Ubuntu but i have no idea how it could be made to work in Debian.

jockey worked perfectly in finding the right nvidia driver for my card, after following manual instructions had failed. I hope Debian can do something similar...

Last edited by johnraff (2010-03-16 03:07:38)

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44 Reply by ZAP

  • ZAP
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Re: Planned changes?

johnraff wrote:
alon_h wrote:

A system based on testing will, IMHO, become diverged from release to releas, as it's not ment to be followed as a 'rolling release', especially not soon after a release. It will work, perhaps even well, but will need constant maintenance... Just like Ubuntu, a clear upgrade path is only planned and implemented when a release is due and the developers know what they're upgrading from/to.

That's kind-of what I was worrying about - how the "quantum jumps" would be handled..

I wondered about that also when I heard that #! Statler would be based on Squeeze instead of Sid. What's the rationale behind that? When Testing breaks it tends to break for a while, afaik, whereas Unstable gets patched pretty quickly.

  • Registered: 2008-11-24
  • Posts: 1,858

Re: Planned changes?

ZAP wrote:
johnraff wrote:

That's kind-of what I was worrying about - how the "quantum jumps" would be handled..

I wondered about that also when I heard that #! Statler would be based on Squeeze instead of Sid. What's the rationale behind that? When Testing breaks it tends to break for a while, afaik, whereas Unstable gets patched pretty quickly.

Statler is not rolling, and there will be no quantum jumps. It is based on Squeeze, which is very stable and will become even more so later this year when its status switches from Testing to Stable.

If you want a rolling, Sid-based Statler, come join the discussion here: http://crunchbanglinux.org/forums/topic … onversion/ It should be easy enough for advanced users who want to give it a try, but I understand why it is not a "sane default" for all users. smile

Last edited by snowpine (2010-03-16 13:15:48)

46 Reply by ZAP

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Re: Planned changes?

snowpine wrote:
ZAP wrote:
johnraff wrote:

That's kind-of what I was worrying about - how the "quantum jumps" would be handled..

I wondered about that also when I heard that #! Statler would be based on Squeeze instead of Sid. What's the rationale behind that? When Testing breaks it tends to break for a while, afaik, whereas Unstable gets patched pretty quickly.

Statler is not rolling, and there will be no quantum jumps. It is based on Squeeze, which is very stable and will become even more so later this year when its status switches from Testing to Stable.

If you want a rolling, Sid-based Statler, come join the discussion here: http://crunchbanglinux.org/forums/topic … onversion/ It should be easy enough for advanced users who want to give it a try, but I understand why it is not a "sane default" for all users. smile

Makes sense. Hopefully Squeeze will become Stable soon so that Statler can be released without that still being a work-in-progress. I find that releases tend to get more unstable as they reach the finish line and the devs try to get those last few troublesome things included (although the Debian release process helps avoid this).

  • From: Cork, Ireland
  • Registered: 2010-03-15
  • Posts: 137

Re: Planned changes?

I really can't wait to try out an Alpha of this smile But can I ask, why the switch from Ubuntu to Debian? I'm kinda biased here I guess, but the boot times on Alpha3 of Ubuntu 10.04 are wicked fast smile

What was it that drove #! away from Ubuntu? Necessity, or just to please the distro hopping kid within us? wink wink

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  • From: California, USA
  • Registered: 2008-11-29
  • Posts: 8,647

Re: Planned changes?

snowpine wrote:
fox wrote:

I don't understand why so many people on this forum seem to be against Ubuntu as a base.  CrunchBang 9.04 used Ubuntu as a base and is a very stable, very fast and lean distro.  I don't think it brought in a whole lot of extra dependencies because it worked from a base install of Ubuntu.  Don't get me wrong, I like Debian as well, but I think Ubuntu is trying to be more innovative with things like fast start (and netbook remixes, although they aren't relevant here).  I hope some of that innovation (especially fast start) will find its way into the new Debian-based CrunchBang.

The reason I gave up on Ubuntu last year is that it's too much of a "compromise" distro. I understand this is a big part of Ubuntu's success, but it just doesn't work for me. Basically, their 6-month cycle is a compromise between stability and freshness. Personally, I would rather use a distro that is either incredibly stable or incredibly fresh. Ubuntu always seems to get really "stale" a few months into its release, but without the benefits of a distro with bug-free reliability as its goal. Plus I have real problems with their "release every 6 months, even if it's broken, and by the way, a fresh install is better than an upgrade" philosophy.

On my work computers, I use CentOS and Debian Stable, with a dual boot into Arch for the rare occasions I need the latest version of OpenOffice or whatever. If you've only ever used Ubuntu, a truly polished and stable distro with many years of support can be a real revelation.

On my home computer, I'm still using #! 9.04, because I just love it so much. smile But I am looking forward to replacing it with Statler when the time comes.

pvsage wrote:

Another reason to move away from Ubuntu is its metapackages are getting loaded with things that a lot of don't want in a lightweight OS, like Gnome dependencies, PulseAudio, etc, yada and so forth, even if the dependencies aren't required for the package's core applications to run properly.  The openoffice metapackage starting with Jaunty is a great example, as it pulls in the entire PulseAudio package.

Also:

http://crunchbanglinux.org/forums/topic … uggestion/

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  • From: Nagoya, Japan
  • Registered: 2009-01-07
  • Posts: 1,724

Re: Planned changes?

pvsage wrote:

Another reason to move away from Ubuntu is its metapackages are getting loaded with things that a lot of don't want in a lightweight OS, like Gnome dependencies, PulseAudio, etc, yada and so forth, even if the dependencies aren't required for the package's core applications to run properly.  The openoffice metapackage starting with Jaunty is a great example, as it pulls in the entire PulseAudio package.

Isn't some of this because Ubuntu's (and Debian's) default behaviour is now to regard recommendations as dependencies? It is quite possible to install openoffice, for example, without pulse audio if you want.

That said,  I'm curious to know if #! on Debian will still have to use consolekit, policykit or any other "kits" - I'm not sure if that stuff helps with permission problems, or causes them... roll

John
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“There is more Unix-nature in one line of shell script than there is in ten thousand lines of C.” - Master Foo

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  • pvsage
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Re: Planned changes?

I don't have OO.o installed on my current (mostly stock #! 9.04.1) system, so I decided to see what Apt wants to do with 'install openoffice.org' vs. 'openoffice.org --no-install-recommends'.  The latter left out a few packages, but still wanted to include the full PulseAudio system. hmm  Whatever; like I've said several times, PA is easily purged in 9.04.1.

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