CrunchBang Linux Forums » Feedback & Suggestions » #! zero
i suggest a zero version when making new releases, which means no programs should be installed by default, and i'm not talking about the nm-applet type programs i'm talking about "transmission" and all the other programs that people usually remove anyway since everyone has their own favorite applications
just my suggestion
Well isn't that nearly what omns is doing in a combination between Debian netinstall and his DTX script?? http://dtx.omnsproject.org/?cat=9
It's one of the things I like about Debian netinstall and this DTX script. You can make it whatever you want in a single script without all the stuff that everyone else seems to be installing 
So: Just install Debian netinstall, and then put on any dress you like...
Regards Steen
I think the netinstall option is nice for those who don't need to worry about, say, specific Broadcom or nVidia cards, and those who want to build a completely custom Debian environment.
I think perhaps Alexander is suggesting the full-blown CrunchBang Openbox/XFCE environments - including themes, wired/wireless networking, video support, and all the other things that make CrunchBang such a wonderful distro for so many different hardware systems - just with a lot less of the GUI apps preinstalled. This sounds like a great idea to me, but I'd probably call it "CrunchBang Bones" (as opposed to "Lite"), or maybe "CrunchBang Nude". 
EDIT: I think of Debian netinstall as more of a bare room (completely built, but bare sheetrock and subfloor), while the bare-bones CrunchBang install would be comparable to a finished, but unfurnished room, complete with carpet, paint, molding, and window dressing; the user-added apps would be analogous to the furniture the tenant would add to the room.
Last edited by pvsage (2010-07-01 12:46:48)
*googleing debian netinstall...*
#pvsage: Ohh. Yeah maybe that's what alexander means. I didn't see that option until now
#alexander: What does alexander mean!!??
Personally I'm just very pleased with Debian netinstall, because it lets me install that very limited unbloated useful dist that I need when working. And omns' DTX just made life easier....
yes, just like pvsage said, i want the whole crunchbang experience but without applications i will never use installed
I think the netinstall option is nice for those who don't need to worry about, say, specific Broadcom or nVidia cards, and those who want to build a completely custom Debian environment.
It now has a non-free firmware included version..
a.
And then we have a version with just Transmission and then a version with Transmission AND Thunderbird and then we have a version... [long list, you know wattai mean?] ... and then we have a website wich allows you to click your own package selection and it tinkers an iso for you, so you don't have to install it afterwards...
The more different flavors they have to maintain, the more mistakes they will make. What's the problem with removing an application via apt? How often do you install #! a week? If it's not a critical choice, like - say - between udev and hal, it's not really relevant.
What's the problem with removing an application via apt?
Theres none but sometimes its less work to add the program you want to a base distro than to remove the apps you don't want from a full distro.
Now obviously there is the option of doing a Debian netinstall but maybe a person wants an installable Debian system with the CrunchBang customizations already included (but not the apps).
I think a better approach would be a script or metapackage that allows you to "crunchify" a Debian minimal install. This would allow a user to install exactly what they want, then give it that crunchbang look.
That being said, #! did have a separate "lite" version in the past, and I would have no problem with it if our fearless developer decides it's worth his time.
Personally I think there is an unfortunate tendency to call distros "bloated." It is a buzzword that rubs me the wrong way.
There is a huge misconception that removing applications you don't personally use will somehow magically make your computer 55% faster or something. News flash: the only benefit to removing transmission is a few mb of hard drive space. So long as #! fits on a single CD, occupies a few GB of hard drive space, and runs on older hardware, it will never be "bloated" in my book. If I don't need an app (Fonty Python anyone?) I just don't click it. 
To me, a "Linux distribution" is and always will be a complete package of kernel, libraries, applications, artwork, etc. that its developer has bundled for my enjoyment. I would rather a distro include too many than too few applications.
Perhaps the OP would be interested in something like Slax (www.slax.org) but, I am not sure that would work any better than debian netinstall.
I have found if a distribution is small enough running the toram boot option can make things faster, but I don't think people are expecting too much in the way of extra speed from just removing a torrent client (Ironically the first thing I did when I install most linux distros is get rid of transmission and install deluge).
Last edited by Val_B (2010-07-01 20:00:47)
Awebb wrote:What's the problem with removing an application via apt?
Theres none but sometimes its less work to add the program you want to a base distro than to remove the apps you don't want from a full distro.
Now obviously there is the option of doing a Debian netinstall but maybe a person wants an installable Debian system with the CrunchBang customizations already included (but not the apps).
well, for one the lack of a complete list of installed programs could be a problem since synaptic shows all packages installed not only programs and one can't really tell which is a complete program and which is a dependacy or whatever
i have over 5gb of used in the root partition
considering that i only use
- konsole
- icedove
- vlc
- thunar
- rhythmbox
- tuxguitar
- gftp
- geany
- gedit
- google chrome
- minitube
- utorrent
- openoffice.org
and that's about it 5 gb of space seam like an awful lot, i am 100% sure that i have alot of applications that i won't ever use and i think it would be a good idea either to have a list of all programs installed by default or to have a zero extra applications such as gnumeric and other stuff that, i don't ask for the applications to be removed from the #! official "client" i am just suggesting a no-extra stuff iso if it's not too much trouble
and if someone can tell me how to figure out how to find installed programs (not libraries and such) via synaptic or whatever please do
Last edited by ali (2010-07-01 20:26:53)
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptGe … ptGetHowto
i've read the whole article and nothing new, did you manage to find out anything that you did not already know from that article?
update: (i DID get something interesting out of there the apt-get clean to remove the deb packages i saved almost 1gb)
Last edited by ali (2010-07-01 20:24:33)
apt-cache pkgnames
This command provides a listing of every package in the system
It's located at the last third of the page
And you can also use your file manager, go to /usr/share/applications, and there you will have all your applications , with nice icons.
well i already said its not the packages i'm interested in since tuxguitar comes with like 25 extra packages that i wouldnt normally install, i want to know only the application names not the extra stuff they come with
If you look in /usr/share/applications, you will find launchers for most GUI programs you've installed. CLI applications are another story.
well, that is a start i suppose but i already found some programs that i can execute that are not there, i hope eventually when statler reaches its final form we get a list of all programs installed or a zero client
Try: $ dpkg --get-selections
http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-get … store.html
or # dpkg-query -W
http://www.math-linux.com/spip.php?article80
Last edited by oupsemma (2010-07-01 21:15:39)
I actually share your oppinion, I have my own set of tools I want to use, my own ways to go, this is why I don't use Ubuntu anymore, I want to be in charge of my system.
Well, in the past, there was the light edition (wich I preferred) for the same reasons: Some users seemed to dislike some package choices the devs made, so they made a strapped down version with less tools preinstalled.
But now it's clear to me why you ask for such an edition instead of removing unwanted stuff... you simply didn't know apt well.
And, erm... all the installed programs should be in either /usr/bin, /usr/sbin or /opt. I refuse to understand why you want someone to make a list when all you need to find that out by yourself is allready on board. All gui tools should have a .desktop file somewhere, half of the basic cli tools should conflict with each other (maybe like rlocate and mlocate, or gawk and mawk). There are some cli tools with the same function that don't exclude each other, like ncdu and gt5, but those things usually are not preinstalled on #!
What you could do is the following: Strap down your #! installation to the minimum you want to see and post the package list, so the team can add or remove some packages as a final tuning and release it as the zero edition.
And... offtopic... how do you use utorrent on linux? Is there a client now?
well, that is a start i suppose but i already found some programs that i can execute that are not there, i hope eventually when statler reaches its final form we get a list of all programs installed or a zero client
There is no list of programs but corenominal did post a list of packages (for Alpha 1 I think):
http://crunchbanglinux.org/pastebin/526
http://crunchbanglinux.org/pastebin/527
BTW this should be shorter than the list given by Synaptic or dpkg.
And... offtopic... how do you use utorrent on linux? Is there a client now?
Probably though Wine. Though there is news they are working on a native Linux version of uTorrent.
well i already said its not the packages i'm interested in since tuxguitar comes with like 25 extra packages that i wouldnt normally install, i want to know only the application names not the extra stuff they come with
Have a look in /usr/bin then?
a.
I think a better approach would be a script or metapackage that allows you to "crunchify" a Debian minimal install. This would allow a user to install exactly what they want, then give it that crunchbang look.
I think you might be able to achieve this by adding the #! repo & then installing the OB / Xfce metapackage & crunchbang-config. If you do it with aptitude (in ncurses mode) you'll get a screen with all the recommends packages & you can just uncheck what you don't like.
You'll need to copy all the settings from /etc/skell to your /home though.
a.
I'm going waaaay off topic but:
#alexander: What does alexander mean!!??
It's a Greek name; you might have heard about Alexander the Great, no? Anyway, Alexander actually means "she/he, who turns away men" and comes from alex- (άλεξ-), a prefix meaning "turning/keeping something away"* and noun andras (άνδρας) meaning "man". In Greek is Alexandros (Αλέξανδρος) for males and Alexandra (Αλεξάνδρα) for females.
*Also in greek with alex+rain you get the greek word for umbrella, with alex+lighting you get lightning rod, etc
and triple off topic:
Awebb wrote:And... offtopic... how do you use utorrent on linux? Is there a client now?
Probably though Wine. Though there is news they are working on a native Linux version of uTorrent.
Great news... I really miss automatic rss downloading of torrents with utorrent back on windows days...
Back on topic:
I would like to have the choice of lite/nude/bone/zero version of crunchbang and full version. I have used both in the past and for lite version I was looking at full version's menu to install some application and for full I was looking on menu to remove some apps 
FWIW, I think removing is quicker than installing...or isn't it?
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