• From: New Amsterdam, U.S.
  • Registered: 2010-06-13
  • Posts: 425

Topic: Rant About Debian

God I forgot how bad Debian sucks. I just reinstalled Debian Squeeze and had to throw in #! right afterwards so I'd have something slim that runs easily. How people can make operating systems that are slow with Xfce is beyond me. I couldn't even move a window without crashing. Even after switching the shell to dash and using tint2 instead of xfce4-panel I'd crash if I tried to do three things consecutively. I went on two different pages that recommended a ton of things from changing the swappiness to innserv and I'd still crash if I ran more then three things. I'd have stuck with Dream Linux but the aardvark who made that did god knows what and nothing would install just quite right preventing me from doing what everyone else would do to edit config files and sometimes would make things just not work. At least DL worked though, I can't stand how if I try to use openSUSE or Debian or Ubuntu nothing works and you have to constantly edit. They make everything as bulky and prone to crashing as possible then the elitist slim on their forums go "I don't know why you'd use another distribution if it's based on Debian. Debian just works." because all I can think to say is "NO IT F***ING DOESN'T! THAT'S WHY I'M NOT F***ING USING IT!". I mean if I want to install or edit certain things I even have to re-insert my installation disc, what the hell is up with that? Preferring Debian to the branched distros that work is like preferring Windows 7 Ultimate to Tiny7. Why get bloat and brokenness if you can have better for less? I hate Debian, I hate Deb-elitists and I just want an operating system that F***ING WORKS!

/rant

big_smile big_smile big_smile

Last edited by CrunchyFree (2010-08-28 01:14:12)

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  • Registered: 2010-08-20
  • Posts: 108

Re: Rant About Debian

Nevermind.

Last edited by Metaphysicist (2010-08-28 01:20:07)

Metaphysicist v2_10-7-10_8.1_21
  • From: Prescott, AZ
  • Registered: 2010-04-27
  • Posts: 159

Re: Rant About Debian

I'm not a huge fan of Debian or the people who make it.

That said, if you want an operating system that works, then I suggest you write one and then share it with the world.

  • From: New Amsterdam, U.S.
  • Registered: 2010-06-13
  • Posts: 425

Re: Rant About Debian

Schadt91 wrote:

I'm not a huge fan of Debian or the people who make it.

That said, if you want an operating system that works, then I suggest you write one and then share it with the world.

That'd be a good idea but I'm not very good with Linux. I know how to add repositories and copy+paste. If I made my own OS I'd have to know how to rename everything, then I'd have to rename everything. Not worth it. I do have my own ideas for my dream operating system though. Debian base, either a zsh or dash shell, xfce or openbox, pcmanfm, swiftfox, pidgin, basero, conky and tint2. Any and all things used to lighten Debian would already be installed, swapiness would be pre-set to zero. An operating system that doesn't only aim to be light but usable too. I'd have AWN and deluge (possibly banshee and conkyBanshee) because you should be able to eat your cake too. I'd call it Eos or Everyones Operating System because it'd be usable for everyone. Text install option and floppy images for older computers and full DVDs with everything you need if you have a DVD burner. I can see it now...

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  • From: Ontario, Canada
  • Registered: 2009-06-29
  • Posts: 1,409

Re: Rant About Debian

Did you install all of the necessary drivers for your hardware? Just saying... Debian is debian, regardless of the WM etc it should crash like your suggesting...

just call me...
~FSM~
  • Registered: 2010-08-20
  • Posts: 108

Re: Rant About Debian

Removed.

Last edited by Metaphysicist (2010-08-28 23:15:55)

Metaphysicist v2_10-7-10_8.1_21
  • Registered: 2010-08-20
  • Posts: 108

Re: Rant About Debian

Removed.

Last edited by Metaphysicist (2010-08-28 23:15:45)

Metaphysicist v2_10-7-10_8.1_21
  • Registered: 2010-08-20
  • Posts: 108

Re: Rant About Debian

All of these replies were in bad taste, I was much more upset for other reasons, and I apologize to CrunchyFree for venting back at him.

Sincerely,
-Metaphysicist

Last edited by Metaphysicist (2010-08-28 23:15:32)

Metaphysicist v2_10-7-10_8.1_21
  • From: California, USA
  • Registered: 2008-11-29
  • Posts: 8,647

Re: Rant About Debian

Besides what Metaphysicist has said, maybe its just your hardware? Linux distros won't run equally on all hardware.

Also to all current and future posters in this thread: please keep your posts civilized smile

Note: ** Please read before posting **

BTW if you wish to contact me, send me an e-mail instead of a PM.
  • From: New Amsterdam, U.S.
  • Registered: 2010-06-13
  • Posts: 425

Re: Rant About Debian

It wasn't a driver problem. When I changed the shell and stopped most of the programs that start up it was less prone to crashing. It's a matter of weight b/c DL didn't crash at all yet used only official debian repositories.

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  • From: Prescott, AZ
  • Registered: 2010-04-27
  • Posts: 159

Re: Rant About Debian

I'm not quite sure what the problem is, Metaphysicist.

-Yes, the way CrunchyFree handled the situation with his OS problems, insofar as I understand it, was lazy. (As much as I adore Perl, no, I do not believe laziness on the part of a programmer or anyone else is a virtue.) Yes, the posts so far have been annoying. Yes, there is, I believe, a lack of respect for just how difficult it is for developers, (and, at the same time, a healthy dose of realism from the perspective of a user, which I welcome.)

I disagree with some of the assertions made by CrunchyFree in this thread, (Metaphysicist, the way you treated him/her in this thread, however, wasn't called for.)


I'll leave the thread with this: CF, I recommend you just simply not use Debian or any Debian-based distros from now on. Including Statler.
-I believe you do not have a desire to contribute your time and skill to the project(s) and so you should just leave it alone; if I am wrong, if you do want to help, that's great.
I'm not attempting to speak for the development, certainly not for Mr. #! Himself, but as a user, if you want to help then I want you to help.



edited for grammar and content.

Last edited by Schadt91 (2010-08-28 05:16:05)

  • Val_B
  • #! CrunchBanger
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  • From: SE United States
  • Registered: 2010-01-25
  • Posts: 238

Re: Rant About Debian

Metaphysicist wrote:

Making your own operating system consists of a lot more than (and actually NONE of) renaming everything. I feel like I should make this my signature, it's so ridiculous..

Don't bitch and complain about Debian, you obviously didn't take the time to fix the problem, learn about the problem, or try and solve the problem. What isn't 'worth it', is a forum thread bitching about the base of #!, and all the other distros, but clearly lacking the energy or forethought to begin understanding operating system development.

I think he meant Distribution rather than operating system. Which is a rather different thing, I have 3 custom distributions that I use and maintain for my machines and all it takes is knowing what programs you want and a bit of script work with debian or Remastersys with Ubuntu and live versions are a breeze.

An operating system, is a very different beast. I remember working a long time ago with a few ambitious friends, and we postulated the idea, that writing an operating system in object oriented pascal would solve all of our problems (we all universally hated anything without strong type checking, and believed that the only reasonable syntax was a verbose one, I still do). Unfortunately, it is not nearly as easy of a task as it would first seem. 

Somehow we arrived at the conclusion that making a compiler for this new OS and writing our OS in it would be easier than trying to write our own RTL without DOS interrupts. 6 months later we had a sort of working complier that was fast as hell, and next to useless. It turns out we would have been better off just writing in TASM or MASM than our ´checks for no errors, fly by night compiler´ for a language we pretty much made up on the spot, without thinking through very well....Which BTW, totally defeated the point of the OS to begin with....

I still dream of writing an operating system in pascal, but the truth of the matter is, it simply would take too much time and energy, I never did anything beyond 16 bit asm, and the thought of writing device drivers and whatnot just makes me cringe. I bet though, FreePascal with it's plethora of features would make it much easier than TurboPascal 7 for system programming.

P.S. Oberon, is similar to pascal, and has an operating system and language...Sadly it never did solve all our problems though...

Last edited by Val_B (2010-08-28 05:56:28)

  • From: Bloom County
  • Registered: 2009-02-13
  • Posts: 1,150

Re: Rant About Debian

Thanks for the laugh CrunchyFree, but thats what #! is so good for, an antidote against computerfrustrationangeraaaaaaaarrrrgh! lol

Last edited by vicshrike (2010-08-28 09:51:00)

#!, all else is but a shadow!
  • From: Florida, Occupied C.S.A.
  • Registered: 2009-04-25
  • Posts: 291

Re: Rant About Debian

SalixOS is not Debian-based (if you really think that Debian is the source of your problems). It's a Slackware derivative (with dependencies actually handled for you) which has been dubbed a distro "for lazy Slackers." Sounds like it's right up your alley, Crunchee.

-Robin

DixieDancer's Website

  • From: Ontario, Canada
  • Registered: 2009-06-29
  • Posts: 1,409

Re: Rant About Debian

CrunchyFree wrote:

It wasn't a driver problem... It's a matter of weight b/c DL didn't crash at all yet used only official debian repositories.

So what your saying is, your frustrated with debian because the default installation is too heavy for your computer.
Thats valid i suppose, and I'm sure that many feel that way about ubuntu too. I think because the post was a bit high-tempered in nature, you didn't really get that message across.

I've never used debian by itself for very long, and when I have it was on very modern hardware, so I tend to not notice any bloat (and when i do, i chalk it up to being used to the snappiness of openbox).

just call me...
~FSM~
  • Registered: 2010-03-26
  • Posts: 548

Re: Rant About Debian

FiniteStateMachine wrote:
CrunchyFree wrote:

It wasn't a driver problem... It's a matter of weight b/c DL didn't crash at all yet used only official debian repositories.

So what your saying is, your frustrated with debian because the default installation is too heavy for your computer.
Thats valid i suppose, and I'm sure that many feel that way about ubuntu too. I think because the post was a bit high-tempered in nature, you didn't really get that message across.

I've never used debian by itself for very long, and when I have it was on very modern hardware, so I tend to not notice any bloat (and when i do, i chalk it up to being used to the snappiness of openbox).

Personally I find this* hard to believe -- I've run straight Debian [the full install] on my device and it is as smooth-running an OS as you'd want to have and still had half my SSD free.  Just sayin'.  neutral

* not what FSM said...

Last edited by winotree (2010-08-28 14:35:20)

  • bolle
  • #! CrunchBanger
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  • Registered: 2009-10-25
  • Posts: 220

Re: Rant About Debian

*restrains from feeding troll*

I once installed gentoo. It asked me for a sacrifice and would not install itself unless I gave him my neighbor's first born and my best bottle of Whiskey.  -Awebb 2011
  • From: New Amsterdam, U.S.
  • Registered: 2010-06-13
  • Posts: 425

Re: Rant About Debian

You guys totally missed the point of this thread. I just needed to rant. I only use Debian-based distros b/c Debian has a good base and I'm using #! right now no problem. The thing is I don't like having to do a million and one things just to keep my computer on for more then 10 minutes before crashing and after doing a million and one things and still crashing after doing three things one-after-another I was frustrated and needed to get it out. Now someone is yelling troll and the others thing I'm just not cut out for it even though I've been using it for seven months.

What kind of internet are we living in when a guy can't even scream to the top of his lungs that he's mad as hell and isn't gonna take it anymore?=

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  • From: California, USA
  • Registered: 2008-11-29
  • Posts: 8,647

Re: Rant About Debian

CrunchyFree wrote:

What kind of internet are we living in when a guy can't even scream to the top of his lungs that he's mad as hell and isn't gonna take it anymore?=

Welcome to the Internet CrunchyFree smile

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  • Registered: 2010-03-26
  • Posts: 548

Re: Rant About Debian

CrunchyFree wrote:

You guys totally missed the point of this thread. I just needed to rant. I only use Debian-based distros b/c Debian has a good base and I'm using #! right now no problem. The thing is I don't like having to do a million and one things just to keep my computer on for more then 10 minutes before crashing and after doing a million and one things and still crashing after doing three things one-after-another I was frustrated and needed to get it out. Now someone is yelling troll and the others thing I'm just not cut out for it even though I've been using it for seven months.

What kind of internet are we living in when a guy can't even scream to the top of his lungs that he's mad as hell and isn't gonna take it anymore?=

But when I click your thread to read it it's as if you're in my living space -- and if you're venting like you were last night, for some of us that's just plain rude.  But that's OK because I don't have to read your posts, do I??  big_smile  Regardless, I hope you're able to work through all this -- whatever it is.  wink

  • From: Klausenburg, Romania
  • Registered: 2010-07-26
  • Posts: 52

Re: Rant About Debian

That's why Ubuntu was born and it didn't failed.
Stop whining and use ubuntu if you don't like editing 100 files per minute with vim, or you aren't mastering grep, whereis, cat to figure out what causes your problems.

Atleast be happy you don't have to compile everything like in gentoo or slackware.

Last edited by IsTI37 (2010-08-28 18:46:07)

PNIFOC - Programming Naked in Front of Computer

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  • From: New Amsterdam, U.S.
  • Registered: 2010-06-13
  • Posts: 425

Re: Rant About Debian

IsTI37 wrote:

That's why Ubuntu was born and it didn't failed.
Stop whining and use ubuntu if you don't like editing 100 files per minute with vim, or you aren't mastering grep, whereis, cat to figure out what causes your problems.

Atleast be happy you don't have to compile everything like in gentoo or slackware.

No. Just no. Ubuntu would me more work b/c it's bloated. It's the bloat that takes me down.

XFCE User ~ Linux Abuser ~ Rubbish Refuser
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  • From: California, USA
  • Registered: 2008-11-29
  • Posts: 8,647

Re: Rant About Debian

If you don't want bloat, then do a minimal install. Various distros provide this such as Debian, Ubuntu, Zenwalk, and Arch.

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  • From: New Amsterdam, U.S.
  • Registered: 2010-06-13
  • Posts: 425

Re: Rant About Debian

anonymous wrote:

If you don't want bloat, then do a minimal install. Various distros provide this such as Debian, Ubuntu, Zenwalk, and Arch.

I'm fine where I am with #!. I'm actually done with the lil' rant thing and would be satisfied if this was locked and deleted.

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  • From: Nowhere, Indiana
  • Registered: 2009-10-17
  • Posts: 288

Re: Rant About Debian

okie dokie so here is my two pennies worth, Debian standard distribution is the best at what it is as far as I'm concerned. I havent spent too much time on KDE Debian project but, as for Gnome it is by far the most stable and snappy. its very vanilla even in testing. the fact that it doesn't come preloaded with pulse and, my least favorite, compiz. Its passionately built their release philosophy and practice is genius. crunchbang statler is also much lighter but that to me is not foundation for a better or worse comparison.

ps net install debian testing is the only way to go i believe the dvd package is an outdated snapshot.
oh and cb statler is debian and  the 9.04 is ubuntu which is based on debian. so what gives/

Last edited by monkeybritt (2010-08-28 22:22:39)

failure is only a negative way to describe a learning experience.
i am constantly learning. smile

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